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Agnostic Atheism

posted Tuesday, 20 March 2007

I would like to start off this entry with a diagram, here's one I made earlier:

THEISM ---------------------------- AGNOSTICISM ---------------------------- ATHEISM 

That is the chart of theistic ideas as I see it.  If you've had a peek around my blog or indeed you have the pleasure of being acquainted with me in person you would be forgiven for guessing that I would place myself here:

THEISM ---------------------------AGNOSTICISM --------------------------ATHEISM

                                                                                                         ^

Some would say it would be bang in the middle.  In fact, it's here:

THEISM ---------------------------AGNOSTICISM --------------------------ATHEISM

                                                                                     ^

Yeah so?  What’s the great significance you may ask.  Well, there’s actually a lot of difference.  The point of this post is less that I demonstrate my beliefs but to demonstrate what a completely rational person should believe.  Here's why:  First let me clarify that by 'God' I don't just mean higher power I mean in a more Christian loving God type being.  Now I'm sure most people would agree that a person on the true path of rationality (yeah I know I'm speaking kinda funny today but I've just done a formal exam so bear with me...) would not be on the theist end due to the complete lack of hard evidence for God, if you think you have some please leave a comment or email me (marykellymmyk@gmail.com).

Right, having established that, lets go to the other extreme - complete out and out atheism.  Why isn't this a completely rational belief?  Because it requires just as much blind belief as theism does.  We have no proof that there is no God.  There are even many semi-convincing arguments for a higher power, which could lead you into the belief that there is a God up there. But even if these don't convince you must admit there is no proof for the non-existence of God.  Lets have a practical, put out your hand.  Ok, look at your palm.  Now I'm telling there is a little fairy sitting on the edge of your hand with her little pale legs dangling off the side.  What you don't believe me?  Why not?  You can't see her?  Well, that’s easy, she’s invisible.  Can't feel her?  You're not sensitive enough, but she is there.  And how can you argue with me, can you really completely deny the existence of that little fairy sitting on your hand if we've agreed that she's invisible?  Of course you can't, you've got nothing to say that the invisible fairy isn't there.  I'm telling you she is, and what's more she's probably an invisible and probably slightly pissed off fairy by now as you don't believe in her.  Wouldn't you be annoyed if I didn't believe in you?  I would apologise to her if I were you.

So far I've explained why I believe it is not rational to be theist or atheist.  So, lets go to agnosticism (here I'm talking about belief that there is a 50% chance of God existing), why isn't that right either?  Well, while you may not have been able to come up with an explanation as to why the fairy isn't there, you probably still think its highly likely that she doesn't exist although I hope I've convinced you that she might.  This is the reason agnosticism doesn't work either.  If you cannot either use sensory perception or logic to prove the existence of something it is automatically more likely that there isn't some thing there.  If there appears to be nothing, you must prove that there is something, you don't look at what appears to be nothing and assume there is something and equally if I showed you an apparently empty room you won’t say there is a 50% chance of something being there.

Therefore, I'm between agnosticism and atheism.

By the way, where's your hand?  You haven't closed it and crushed the fairy have you??

 

 

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1. Shiraz left...
Tuesday, 20 March 2007 8:37 pm

You're great, Mary, well done indeed! I've been waiting for a diagram, it's exactly how I picture it! And by the way, I let the fairy read your blog with me and then sent her on her way. She's happy you have some faith in her :)

P.P }i{

Xxxxxx


2. Michael left...
Friday, 23 March 2007 1:04 am :: http://mkw313.blogspot.com

Excellent, thought-provoking post. Me, I'm a bit right of agnosticism on your diagram but I'm not quite ready to close my fist...hey, I'm willing to give my fairy the benefit of the doubt :-)


3. Tisha left...
Saturday, 24 March 2007 1:01 pm :: http://tishabest.blogspot.com/

You explained it so well and atheists just don't get it when I tell them that they can be just as close-minded as a practicing person. Very stimulating post! Glad I found you!!


4. Mojoey left...
Saturday, 24 March 2007 10:44 pm :: http://mojoey.blogspot.com

Welcome to the <a title="" href="http://mojoey.blogspot.com/2006/09/join -mojoeys-atheist-blogroll.html">Atheist Blogroll</a>


5. AgnosticAtheist left...
Sunday, 25 March 2007 12:38 am :: http://www.agnosticatheism.com

Hey! aA is a great place to be!


6. Chris left...
Monday, 26 March 2007 9:56 am :: http://epiphanist.wordpress.com/

You seem to have satisfactorily established that there is a difference between science and religion.


7. Semage La Rock left...
Wednesday, 23 May 2007 10:28 pm :: http://ludsville.net/

Mary, I've come across your blog while surfing Blogmad and I'm glad I have. You have a wonderful place, here. There's some thought provoking posts. And this Blog-City thing isn't looking too bad, either. I may actually try it out.

Now, moving on to the matter at hand, I think this is a great post. But, of course, being a Christian (apparently the only one to comment, so far), I have to take issue with one part of your post.

You say, "The point of this post is less that I demonstrate my beliefs but to demonstrate what a completely rational person should believe." Without that line, I would be completely happy with the post. However, being, myself, at least somewhat agnostic, I wonder how could you ever know what a rational person would believe?

You see, for you to fail to believe or disbelieve in the light of a lack of evidence for or against would be completely rational. But for you to call for me to believe or disbelieve in the light of a lack of evidence having been presented to you would be somewhat presumptuous, no?

To play on your analogy, I met a fairy the other day. She told me to make a wish while she spread some pixie dust. I had recently been deafened by a freak accident involving a spit-wad and some battery acid which left me with no ears. Naturally, when faced with the fairy's powers, I wished to have my hearing back. The fairy acquiesced and my face was reshaped right before my eyes as I watched in a mirror.

Now, you could never know whether my story is true and as an agnostic you don't claim to. However, I must ask that you not label me irrational for believing in what you have not seen.

Please excuse the long comment. And I hope to see more posts like this in the future.

Your brother in blog, Semage La Rock

Mary: Thank you for taking the time to post such a long comment! I'm sorry about adding my response onto your own comment but I find it's the best way to respond to comments since I don't like artificially bumping up my comment count with my own comments!

On to your post, well you make a very good point but I think should clarify the experience of this rational person - she/he has not seen or heard from god. All he/she can see is what everyone else can see, 'evidence' of God's work, Bible's, preachers, churches etc and from that evidence they have decided to believe in God. In your example, the person actually saw the fairy and its magic and therefore I wouldn't count that person to be irrational. But, it is irrational to believe that person (eg I would count it 'irrational' to believe the word of the gospels).

So from a rational person's point of view, if I hear you saying that you saw a fairy and therefore you believe in fairies I would think it a perfectly rational thing for YOU to believe in fairies (I see a bird, I believe that there are birds). However, with no personal experience of this, it is irrational for ME to believe in fairies based on your evidence. As I write this I realise I'm digging myself into a hole - I believe Mexico exists yet I have not seen Mexico. So why do I believe in Mexico but not God? More evidence of Mexico maybe? ....It's not a very satisfactory explanation I think... I shall ponder this problem and get back to you!

Your sister in a blog :) Mary

PS Thank you for taking the time to read this post properly and think about it, so many Christians who visit my blog seem to read the first sentance of a post and then comment with long reels of Christian doctrince and teaching which generally has no relevance to what I'm discussing, so thanks!